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Report 1603
Report #1603 Skillset: Skill: Paralysis Org: Serenguard Status: Completed Mar 2017 Furies' Decision: Solution 3. Clumsiness will be buffed to handle the parry side of paralysis and this will be removed from the aff. Blindness will cover the non-attacking aspect of paralysis and it will be removed from the aff. Paralysis will retain its movement prevention, including the addition of adding a flat +0.5s increase to tumble, roll, and somersault. Problem: Currently Paralysis on Dust balance is an incredibly powerful stop all affliction, as every fighter has noted and commented on. This report aims to keep some power in the affliction without making it the complete stop all that it currently is. R: 0 Solution #1: Create a two stage Paralysis affliction. In stage 1 paralysis will only stop:: Movement, Shield, Parry, and Channeled attacks. :: After 4 seconds, if stage 1 is not cured it will move to Stage 2, which will be the current effect of Paralysis. Both stage 1 and stage 2 will still be cured by Dust. R: 1 Solution #2: Have paralysis cure concurrently with any other dust balance cured aff. Player Comments: ---on 1/17 @ 22:26 writes: Progressing right to the second stage (full paralysis as it exists now) should still be an option for some abilities. The most prevalent source of paralysis spamming is via mantakaya venom (right?), so nerfing that and some other major spam offenders to dealing pre-paralysis is a good step. ---on 2/1 @ 04:05 writes: Only supported if stage 1 and 2 STILL stop parry. Else you've just ruined Warriors horribly, even aside from the small chance to stick paralysis with venoms due to passive Combat shrugging. ---on 2/1 @ 04:55 writes: I think Solution 2 is a bit better than Solution 1, but I think either would help the situation. If Solution 2, eating faeleaf for blindness should be included. A possible Solution 3 that was dicussed on Envoys was to move blindness to a different curative (steam or slush), which would help specifically blind and paralysis stacking, but potentially create new issues. ---on 2/2 @ 14:30 writes: Paralysis currently does not stop green/gedulah, and should not stop green/gedulah in either stage 1 or stage 2. Swap that out for parry in solution 1, please. That'll make solution 1 the better solution in my opinion. It'll also give it a proper niche when put alongside blind: blindness stops attacks, paralysis doesn't for the first 4 seconds, but stops movement, which blindness doesn't etc. It will see a drops in priority, which ties in with its role as a viable movement hinder, too. ---on 2/5 @ 05:59 writes: I've been thinking on it a bit. Perhaps we might want to make it so this first stage paralysis not stop parry. As it is, paralysis is currently the "workaround" for parry, making beast spit an almost must-have for warriors (and monks) and the difference between having it (or not) a huge gap. I think this might be an opportunity to move away from that. My suggestion is that we should add in some ways of free-parry bypass to the Knighthood skillset that run on its own timer (similar to beast balance), so that warriors can all get a free pass at enemy parry the same way beast spit paralysis before an attack does now (maintaining the status quo) - but freeing up that beast spit slot for something else. And remove parry-stopping from first stage paralysis, so that warriors are not required to use it every single time. This makes parry mean something as well, so that even when you're in first-stage paralysis in a group fight, you're not automatically stopped from parrying. ---on 2/5 @ 12:13 writes: That would affect more than just beast spit. Pierceplexus, notably. Blademaster as well heavily relies on it with remiss, Stab, and my latest report relies on paralysis stopping parry. ---on 2/8 @ 02:04 writes: As Enyalida has noted, some abilities should continue to immediately give a 2nd stage paralysis instead of having to go through the first stage. Pierceplexis and remiss would probably be amongst those. Things like stab, that requires poisons, would actually benefit from my suggestion: if we remove paralaysis first stage from blocking parry, and compensate with a Knighthood ability that bypasses parry at roughly the same rate as a beast spit, then things like stab can be used to give other poisons than paralysis. What do you think? ---on 2/8 @ 05:09 writes: I am more in favor of solution 2 because I think it's a lot simpler to reason with. I agree with Enyalida that some abilities should jump straight on to full paralysis in the case of sol. 1, but with that also adds a layer of complexity. For example with solution 1 these are all questions: what abilities should cause full paralysis and which should only cause the first stage? What actions are stopped in stage 1 vs. stage 2? etc. etc. Solution 2 uses a mechanic that many other affs in the game already use. If it's too much of a nerf we could extend the delay of the cure of paralysis a tiny bit (from 1 to 1.25 or somesuch). ---on 2/8 @ 15:34 writes: I'm not sure what form the free parry bypass skill would take, but in general I'm a bit skeptical of it. I think Warriors should work around parry with their affliction combos and through threats on other body parts. Beast spit can currently do this, but with rng-gated with shrugging and it's highly possible to separate beast and Warrior (excepting Cavalier to an extent). I largely agree with Wobou. Paralysis has existed as it has since inception, but (as far as I know), hasn't been considered a major problem until the move to dust. Solution 1 provides extra issues we need to tackle on the specifics of paresis and what abilities require what. Basically, I think Solution 2 is cleaner. ---on 2/12 @ 17:31 writes: Generally I feel that solution 1 would, while blocking less things, end up still almost always progressing to where the current form of paralysis is problematic. Given, you get a bit more of a timeframe to deal with things, but I still feel we'd do better with solution 2, although I wonder if that will not completely trash paralysis' usefulness? ---on 2/15 @ 22:50 writes: Be funny/interesting to make Paralysis an Ice cure instead. Not like Mantakaya isn't already a mandatory poison for Warriors/Monks due to Parry issue as is, and even double/triple applied you can only be paralyzed once, unlike the 'issue' people with improper curing had with old Dendroxin/Calcise breaking multiple limbs in the same action with 1h's. (improper curing being complaints of them spamming ice to head even with all four limbs broken, rather than fixing their messed up priority issues) ---on 2/20 @ 15:38 writes: There was no improper curing. You either had to cure the affs (and stack wounds a lot faster) or cure wounds and not be able to move/attack. There was no winning decision. I prefer solution 2, so it maintains its use but stops being a super stack. Agree it should cure with faeleaf or anything on the balance, not JUST actual dust. ---on 2/20 @ 17:29 writes: In regards to Dendroxin/Calcise there was no improper curing and it has no relevancy to this discussion. ---on 3/7 @ 03:11 writes: Yeah, a poison giving an ice affliction is, generally speaking, probably not a good idea. If it's a super low priority affliction that doesn't do much, maybe it'll work. But paralysis? Uh uh. I like the idea of a two-stage paralysis, but if the general consensus is to basically go back to making paralysis cured outside of our cure balances without actually creating a new cure (by making it cure simultaneously with another affliction), then that works as well, I guess. ---on 3/10 @ 19:33 writes: I like either solution, but I feel like solution 2 shouldn't be a totally free cure with no downsides. In the old paradigm, curing paralysis was on focus balance and could go alongside mainstream cures but DID hinder curing in that it knocked you off focus balance for focus mind, which WAS balanced around. There has to be some middle ground between paralysis and paralysis spam taking every wafer balance constantly to deal with and paralysis not affecting curing at all. ---on 3/16 @ 01:49 writes: I don't mind any of these solutions but I share the idea that this might swing paralysis the complete other way - now it's too powerful, but then it might become too weak. What if dust balance increased to 2s if you cured paralysis concurrently? Or what if the natural delay to eat -> cure increased by 1s if you cure concurrently and not focus? ---on 3/16 @ 01:52 writes: I agree with increasing dust balance as per Shuyin's comments ---on 3/16 @ 04:27 writes: I think increasing to 2s could be a good compromise if necessary. ---on 3/16 @ 12:37 writes: I am still strongly in support of solution 2 and I don't think it'll swing paralysis the other way. While focus body did stop you from using focus mind before focus body was always the top prio so in the old game no one stayed paralyzed for longer than a second or two unless they were fighting a TK, and despite how easy it was to cure it was still worth using. That being said I like Shuyin's idea of changing the delay based on concurrence. My suggestion would be if you cure paralysis concurrently with another aff the paralysis delay is 1.5s instead of 1s. If you only had paralysis and eat dust the delay stays at 1s. And if you use a focus on paralysis (whether you have other affs or not) the delay drops to 0.5s. All of these numbers can be adjusted of course. ---on 3/29 @ 15:44 writes: Of the two solutions presented, I prefer Sol1, but I would not be totally opposed to Sol2 with the condition that it increases dust bal should it cure Paralysis with any other dust aff. In terms of whether the double heal should be restricted to just dust, I do believe it only fair to include other afflictions that share the dust balance (I.E. Blindness). In terms of how long the delay is, I am leaning more towards Shuyin's numbers. 1s if just curing paralysis. 1s if just curing any other dust aff. 2s if curing any dust aff + paralysis. 1.5s if curing just paralysis or any other dust aff alone for a regular focus. 3s if curing concurrently with a regular focus. I wouldn't be opposed to Wobou's suggestion of decreasing the cure time with a power focus to .5s-.75s for paralysis IF you are powerfocusing paralysis specifically (which we can also allow to randomly cure another dust aff as well.) If you power focus a different dust aff, then it will remain at the standard 1s balance, but will also cure paralysis as well. I feel this will give the victim a bit more strategic choice on how important it is to get rid of the paralysis right now if powerfocusing, while still not completely devaluing a decent dust stack from the attacker (i.e. Is it better to powerfocus the paralysis off so I can move and attack, but I might not get the blindness cure? Do I powerfocus the blindness and get the paralysis off for sure, but now I'm short 1p. Or do I just take the balance hit and eat the faeleaf to cure blindness and paralysis for sure, but now I'm locked out of dust bal for 2s, If I'm out of power, do I take the chance to cure a random dust aff+paralysis for 2s, or do I gaurentee the blindness+paralysis cure and take the extra 1s balance penalty?) ---on 3/29 @ 19:12 writes: Not sure where you're getting those numbers, Anelissa, but dust balance is 1.5s base right now. I'm kinda skeptical of changing the cure delay, either shorter or longer. Shorter can ruin some (mostly warrior) tactics. Longer could make it too strong. ---on 3/30 @ 01:32 writes: I think this report is very needed given the stacking issues